This is dreadful news!

Carole · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 6:50 am Post subject: This is dreadful news!

This was posted this morning on the Expats in Italy site...

>VATICAN DIRECTIVE<

I cannot conceive just 'what' the Vatican thinks it is doing. Don't they realise that it will harm far MORE Catholics than Mormons? I'm sorry but decisions of this kind really put the catholic church back to... back to......
sorry, I just can't bring myself to say exactly what I think/feel on this matter.

It's just SO sad!

Cathy · V.I.P. Joined: Jul 10, 2007 Posts: 2681

I actually heard about this last night. It makes me sad to know I will never be able to go back any further than the stato records.

JamesBianco · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 8:37 am Post subject: Re: This is dreadful news!

Wow... That is just incredibly awful.

(And Nap, don't be silly, just because the Mormons do not film a town doesn't mean you wont have access or be able to trace further using the church records. It just may cost you some money to hire a researcher.)

When I started with Carini, years before the Mormons even filmed the Stato records, I hired a researcher that traced my lines well into the 1600's.

I just can't believe the vatican is doing this!! They really don't understand how much of the non-mormon world benefits.

Sad

MauroMags · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 8:58 am Post subject: Re: This is dreadful news!

I agree James,

There are many researchers that DO NOT have connection to the LDS at all, the Vatican shouldn't penalize them.

The catholic church should set up their own genealogical department to honor the generations under their faith. I'm gonna call Benedict and suggest this.... Does anyone have his phone number Very Happy

Poipu04 · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 9:19 am Post subject: Re: This is dreadful news!

Isn't the pope giving credence to this practice of rebaptism by banning Mormon access to more the records? If you don't believe in this rebaptism stuff, it has no relevance. See what I am saying? It doesn't bother me that the mormons are trying to baptize my Catholic relatives post mortem into their faith because I don't believe that is a legitimate practice. Furthermore, if my dead relatives had any say in it, they would yell Madonna mia! Va! Va! Wink

By the way, if you really want to write to the pope, it is as simple as writing to the Holy See, Vatican City. No further address needed. That is how I addressed by envelope to get papal audience tickets and I got a reply.

MauroMags · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 10:13 am Post subject: Re: This is dreadful news!

Excellent point! by banning access to the records, the pope is giving credence to the re-baptism practice. In defense of my Mormon friends, i've been to my local FHC dozens of times and not once did they proselytize or try to convert my dead gggggrandfather , their interests were purely genealogical.

writing to the holy see is a good idea... maybe i can ask for access to the Secret Vatican Archives!

Emmy · V.I.P. Joined: Jul 11, 2007 Posts: 1000 Location: Scotland

Why oh Why cant the Vatican 'live and let live'.
It's things like this that can cause lots of trouble and strife among the various religions in the world today, and there is no need for it.

What on earth is the Vatican afraid of?
Poipu said

Quote::

Isn't the pope giving credence to this practice of rebaptism by banning Mormon access

A very valid statement!

In all my visits to my FHC not once has religion or religious beliefs entered into any discussions we have had. Just how would any of us Catholics have felt if when we applied for use of films we had been told, 'Sorry but we're not too sure about allowing Catholics to use the films we have just in case they pass on any information to their priests/Bishops etc'.

Each religion has its own beliefs, there maybe things in the Catholic religion that the Mormons dont hold with just as there will be things in other religions Catholics dont believe in but we should still show respect to all other religious groups and their beliefs.

I do know what I'm going to do when I next visit my FHC- APOLOGISE to the staff.

Emmy

BillieDeKid · V.I.P. Joined: Oct 26, 2007 Posts: 1221 Location: Illinois

Poipu04 wrote:

Isn't the pope giving credence to this practice of rebaptism by banning Mormon access to more the records? If you don't believe in this rebaptism stuff, it has no relevance. See what I am saying? It doesn't bother me that the mormons are trying to baptize my Catholic relatives post mortem into their faith because I don't believe that is a legitimate practice. Furthermore, if my dead relatives had any say in it, they would yell Madonna mia! Va! Va! Wink

I agree 100%. This was exactly what I was saying this past week to a friend of mine. I DO NOT believe in this rebaptism nonsense and you're right.......by the vatican banning Mormon access they are lending credence to a ridiculous practice that mean absolutely nothing.

All of my ancestors were baptised catholic (as were many of our forum members ancestors).........let the LDS try their rebaptism practice with them........I'm sure there will be some ***kicking going on from up above!

MauroMags · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 11:27 am Post subject: Re: This is dreadful news!

i hate to say it, but MAYBE the reason the pope and his buddies are against the practice of filming church records is because the Mormons charge a fee for access to the records, money that could go to Rome rather than Utah.

It sounds cynical, but several times when i've explained the FHC to outsiders (non-genealogy people) the reaction i get is often "Oh, they must make a lot of money!" Not realizing the cost of obtaining these records w/0 fhc help would be 10X more!

Emmy · V.I.P. Joined: Jul 11, 2007 Posts: 1000 Location: Scotland

Quote::

i hate to say it, but MAYBE the reason the pope and his buddies are against the practice of filming church records is because the Mormons charge a fee for access to the records, money that could go to Rome rather than Utah.

It sounds cynical, but several times when i've explained the FHC to outsiders (non-genealogy people) the reaction i get is often "Oh, they must make a lot of money!" Not realizing the cost of obtaining these records w/0 fhc help would be 10X more!

Good thought!
I cant really see the FHC's making much of a profit from what they charge but if 'Rome' copied the records would only Catholics be allowed access?
and what would the fees be for viewing then!!

(Oh I'm angry right now, so I'd better stop posting or I'll be getting excommunicated!!)

Emmy

Carole · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: This is dreadful news!

May I be allowed to offer a purely personal point of view?

I am NOT a religeous person. I tend to 'pray' only when I find I need to. I'm not a regular church goer either. But having said all that - it does NOT mean that I don't believe in 'my' God.

But perhaps a Catholic (any Catholic) could solve the problem I have with this current 're-baptism' stance:

"Do you not believe, and teach, that when a Catholic 'passes' they are given the last rights according to your faith and their holy soul passes through the gates and into HEAVEN? "

Now if that IS the case, and the body of the departed remains here on earth without its soul, and the Catholic faith (because of this belief) feels it is fully acceptable to disinter the 'soul-less' bones and re-bury them in an ossary, then WHY are they saying that the Mormons want to re-baptise the souls of the dead Catholics when those souls are already with the Lord?

They should make up their minds - either a Catholic soul goes to Heaven - in which case there's no problem. OR they've been lying for centuries!

If the souls are already IN heaven...they can do what they want with what's left! Can't they?

They can't (shouldn't be allowed to) have their cake AND eat it!

MauroMags · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: This is dreadful news!

I'm picturing one of my ancestors having some wine under a fig tree in Catholic heaven, and then St. Peter tapping them on the shoulder to say :

"Sorry vitangelo, it seems that you were just re-baptised by the Mormons. Please leave your mandolino at the door, pick up your mitt romney stickers and Osmond albums and please head toward the mormon heaven."

liviomoreno · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: This is dreadful news!

Although I was baptized, I am not a practicing Catholic, I respect all the religions even if I disagree on some behaviours.
I fully agree that it is a pity, from a genealogical point of you, that the Mormons are not allowed anymore to film the Catholic Parishes' registers.

And I also believe that religious (and political, and other...) discussions are NOT appropriate for this forum.

It's just my two cents...

JamesBianco · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: This is dreadful news!

I have to agree with Livio, maybe we should be less concerned with discussing the religious differences between The Mormons and The Catholics and focus more on what we may be able to do to let our voice be heard in Rome or elsewhere where it may have some (however small) impact.

just my two cents...

Very Happy

Poipu04 · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: This is dreadful news!

This is the explanation of the Mormon belief from www.familysearch.org

www.familysearch.org/E...tory_a.asp

I will leave it at that. Anyhow, isn't ancestry.com in the process of filming records or are they scanning records from the Mormons? I know that there are maybe two or three Italian towns available on ancestry.

Also, will Italian CIVIL authorities listen to the pope? I understand that church records will not be permitted to be microfilmed further by the Mormons but will the civil authorities pay heed to this directive? If there is a separation of church and state, then this is a non=issue. Maybe some of our Italian members can tell us if the church has any legal authority over how the comuni control their records. Maybe we are all worrying for nothing.