Why move?

lilbees · Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:13 am Post subject: Why move?

Why would an entire family move after living in one place for generations?

The move took place about 1860 from Roccapiemonte to Castellammare di Stabia. Would it just be for the work or an environmental event at the time?

lilbees

nuccia · Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: Why move?

It could be just about anything. But I think there were some political events going on at that time. Hopefully we can get some different ideas here but it's hard to actually pin point the reason why with out some kind of proof. Sad

lilbees · Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: Why move?

Not well informed of Italian History for that time period let alone natural disasters since that is such a mountainous area. Hope someone has some kind of background.

lilbees

Carole · Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: Why move?

It could simply be a question of 'somewhere to live'....

For example:
*The groom or his family could have land so the bride would follow him with her dowry.

*The bride's dowry 'may' have included land, a house or a share of a house to live in, in which case the groom would go there.

*The groom may have some land and livestock which he needed a wife to help him look after - maybe following the death of another family member.

There are just so many possibilities - many of which still exist in smaller communities (like mine) even today.

Here are two good examples in my own village:

1. Grandmother (84) owns large 2 story house. She lives on ground floor an her son (63) and family occupy the self contained 1st floor. Their daughter (23) has now finished university and is working. So Grandma and Dad had the roof of the house 'lifted' and have built another floor above their two. This will also have it's own front door, but is for her when she decides to marry....

2. The lady who 'does for me' has a small stable in our village and every year raises a calf, some goats, rabbits and chickens. (Sometimes even a pig too). The house she and her family live in belongs to her widowed mother-in-law (73) and she and her husband were given the 1st floor. The second floor (already built) is ready for either their son (22) or their daughter (12), but they also have, in addition to some fields in this village, a large plot of land with a small ruined farmhouse/stable (called a baita), in a town called Madesimo, a famous ski resort high in the mountains about 8 miles from the Swiss border. They are hoping to be able to sell it for redevelopment in a few years time and then build a house in this village for either their son or daughter...

So you see - this is how families lived, and still do live, out in the rural areas. Maybe a bit less so in cities but even there some families add to their current home so the children have a home and no mortgage!!!

Here is a typical 'baita' from my region

These are often found in 'groups' like these

and are used by groups of families with their livestock every summer... that's where they make some of the best cheeses in the world!

lilbees · Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Why move?

Thanks Carol. Those were not bad homes. Love the scenery

In some ways, sounds like our family. All lived with mom and dad until property was acquired. As you said, no mortgages. They happen to not believe in them. And just think, the wife and/or wives did not work. When the homes were built all contributed/worked on them including friends. We just fed a tone of people.

Not the same any more. Big mortgages and counting on incomes from both wife and husband.

lilbees

JoeB · Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: Why move?

nuccia wrote:

It could be just about anything. But I think there were some political events going on at that time. Hopefully we can get some different ideas here but it's hard to actually pin point the reason why with out some kind of proof. Sad

Thought this might have had an affect on the social environment and the possilble movement of families. Just a guess, I'm not a history buff, especially not an Italian history buff. Joe B.

Italian unification (Italian: il Risorgimento, or "The Resurgence") was the political and social movement that agglomerated different states of the Italian peninsula into the single state of Italy in the 19th century. Despite a lack of consensus on the exact dates for the beginning and end of this period, many scholars agree that the process began in 1815 with the Congress of Vienna and the end of Napoleonic rule, and ended some time around 1871 with the Franco-Prussian War. The last città irredente however, did not join the Kingdom of Italy until after World War I.

lilbees · Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:36 am Post subject: Re: Why move?

Thank you Joe so much.
lilbees

lilbees · Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:47 am Post subject: Re: Why move?

Well, finally have an answer to my initial question (I think).

I have been trying to read some Italian history to better educate myself and hopefully to help me with my family genealogy. Like many, I watched the video of "The Tree of Wooden Clogs" several times. That helped me to understand somewhat the life of the peasant during that time period.

What I have learned so far:
My 3x great grandfather's profession carpenter
My 2x great grandfather's profession carpenter
My 1x great grandfather's profession mason
My 5 great uncles were all recorded as carpenters by trade

NOTE: My 3x great grandfather on my 2x great grandmother's side was listed as mason.

So far, no farmers..............birth, marriage, death and military records confirm the stated occupations. So therefore no tie to the land.

I learned in 1857, which is about the time the entire family packed up and moved north to Castellammare di Stabia from Roccapiemonte, that there was a massive 6.7 or 6.8 earthquake in that valley with much loss of life.

Many families fled, some migrating to the U.S. and other countries and some merely moving to another area, although my family moving under the shadow of Mt. Vesuvius was a bit questionable. I have no defnitive proof of this but it does satisfy me.

My first great uncle married in Castellammare di Stabia in 1864. My great grandfather, who was the mason in the family, left for Sicily from Napoli about 1870. He was a witness at his brother's marriage in March 1870, moving to the Palermo area shortly thereafter where sulphur mining was of particular importance at that time. Pumice mining was prominent in the Napoli area during that time period.

I have more history to read and understand what may have encouraged my great grandfather to move from Sicily to Tunisia about 1891.

Sorry for a long post but just wanted all to know I was still digging for the answer to my initial question "WHY MOVE?"

Thanks for listening.

lilbees

uantiti · Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:07 am Post subject: Re: Why move?

Yes, Lilbees, I was just going to write that I saw on Roccapiemonte Site/History that they mention damages to the Castle due to an earthquake in 1857 and I assume also the town was seriously damaged.

Ada

lilbees · Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:16 am Post subject: Re: Why move?

Thanks Ada. The articles I have read indicate quite a loss of life and of animals. I was surprised to learn this is about the time of the start of the great migration. Lack of food, freedom, political unrest and so on. Forgot to mention I am seeking modes of transportation at that time as well.

I am trying to include supporting history/background with each of my family groups in the book I am trying to put together. Since I do not have pictures other than my great grandfather who visited in 1910 I would like more on the clothing of the day. It was fairly easy for the part of the family in Tunisia. Some of the books I have gone through have given a lot of information as well.

By the way, do you know of any other films, with subtitles of course, I may order regarding life in Italy 1600s through 1800s? Amazon online has come up with some suggestions as well.

lilbees

uantiti · Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:18 am Post subject: Re: Why move?

Also, towards the end of 1800, Italy, due to a "mania of grandeur", started to colonize in Northern Africa and was encouraging farmers to move to those new lands. This might explain why your relative moved to Tunisia.

Ada

lilbees · Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:24 am Post subject: Re: Why move?

As explained earlier, the only one of the family that moved south was my great grandfather who was a mason and not a farmer. In fact, none of the men were farmers and remained so until their death.

My great grandfather had learned to quarry marble with his other grandfather. He worked in quarries in Sicily and then worked in the quarries in far southern Tunisia where he died in 1912.

lilbees

uantiti · Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:49 am Post subject: Re: Why move?

Mode of transportation at that time was very easily what we call "cavallo di san Francesco", literally "san Francesco's horse" meaning "by shank's pony". Anyway, people were using carts drawn by oxen or, if they were well-off, drawn by horses but very often they were walking even for days carrying their belongings on ....(don't know in English) wicker baskets (?) they were carrying on their back.
About clothing, I know something but I will try and see if I can find some pictures or description in English.
I can't think of any film at the moment about life in 1600 through 1800 but if I do I'll let you know.

Ada

lilbees · Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:57 am Post subject: Re: Why move?

Your description of the transportation was great. Could probably do stills from the movie "The Tree of Wooden Clogs" to show the probable footwear and transport. I have gone back several times to view this movie. Wow!

I have several instances in my family where several of my great uncles died leaving a large family behind including infants and toddlers. At least until 1877 my great great grandmother was still alive as well as several other women in the family who could possible taken care of them. But, you know, there was so much illness at that time that not too many of these young children survived let alone newborns. In fact, not too many children survived at all in our family. Seems most of the survivors were female.

lilbees

nuccia · Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:42 am Post subject: Re: Why move?

Wow lilbees..you have been busy! Good for you. I try and do the same thing with my research. It's great to have names and that but its even better when you can piece together a bit of the history and the lives of our ancestors - makes it more real.