x
Toggle Content Register or Login  -  December 25, 2024, 8:19 am
Toggle Content User Info

Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: LucilleDZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 2016

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 396
Total: 396
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Home
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Stories Archive
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Home
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Home
28: Statistics
29: Community Forums
30: Home
31: Statistics
32: Statistics
33: Statistics
34: Statistics
35: Community Forums
36: Photo Gallery
37: Statistics
38: Statistics
39: Statistics
40: Statistics
41: Home
42: Photo Gallery
43: Statistics
44: Statistics
45: Statistics
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Statistics
50: Statistics
51: Home
52: Statistics
53: Community Forums
54: Statistics
55: Statistics
56: Statistics
57: Statistics
58: Community Forums
59: Statistics
60: Statistics
61: Statistics
62: Statistics
63: Statistics
64: Statistics
65: Home
66: Statistics
67: Statistics
68: Statistics
69: My Account
70: Statistics
71: Statistics
72: Home
73: Statistics
74: Statistics
75: Community Forums
76: Statistics
77: Statistics
78: Statistics
79: Statistics
80: Community Forums
81: Statistics
82: Statistics
83: Community Forums
84: Statistics
85: Community Forums
86: Stories Archive
87: Community Forums
88: Statistics
89: Community Forums
90: Statistics
91: Statistics
92: Photo Gallery
93: Statistics
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Statistics
106: Statistics
107: Statistics
108: My Account
109: Statistics
110: Statistics
111: Statistics
112: Statistics
113: Statistics
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Statistics
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Statistics
138: Statistics
139: Statistics
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Photo Gallery
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Statistics
155: Statistics
156: Statistics
157: Statistics
158: Community Forums
159: Statistics
160: Photo Gallery
161: Community Forums
162: Statistics
163: Community Forums
164: Statistics
165: Statistics
166: Statistics
167: Statistics
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Stories Archive
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Home
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Home
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Home
197: Community Forums
198: Home
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Home
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: My Account
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Home
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Statistics
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Home
228: Community Forums
229: Statistics
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Statistics
235: Statistics
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: My Account
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Home
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Statistics
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Home
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Statistics
273: Statistics
274: Statistics
275: Statistics
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Statistics
279: Statistics
280: Statistics
281: Statistics
282: Statistics
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Home
293: Stories Archive
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Statistics
327: Home
328: Community Forums
329: Photo Gallery
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Statistics
340: Statistics
341: Community Forums
342: Statistics
343: Statistics
344: Statistics
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Stories Archive
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Statistics
382: Statistics
383: Statistics
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Photo Gallery
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Statistics
394: Statistics
395: Statistics
396: Statistics

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Toggle Content Main Menu
Toggle Content Last Posts
Last 10 Forum Messages

translation help needed please
Last post by yesindd in Translations on Jul 15, 2024 at 20:59:53

bocca
Last post by tennino in General Discussion Groups on Jan 16, 2021 at 15:56:41

Towns in Frosinone that were part of former Vatican States a
Last post by Italysearcher in Central Italy on Feb 19, 2019 at 08:15:58

Dual Citizenship
Last post by Curci-Ghio in General Discussion Groups on Nov 18, 2018 at 14:30:54

Please Help Translate Letter
Last post by nuccia in Translations on Oct 20, 2018 at 06:18:43

Family in Cittanova
Last post by russojoseph1 in Translations on Oct 14, 2018 at 12:28:20

DNA Testing
Last post by nuccia in General Discussion Groups on Sep 29, 2018 at 10:39:30

Trento -Atto di Nascita - Frazione di Poia, Comune di Comano
Last post by exevans in Northern Italy on Mar 28, 2018 at 00:45:37

Translating written postcard
Last post by mekanic in Translations on Jan 18, 2018 at 12:58:50

Translating written postcard
Last post by mekanic in Translations on Jan 18, 2018 at 12:53:38

Toggle Content Help Support this Site
Please support GentediMareGenealogy
Help us by supporting the future development of this site, or simply to say thank you.
Toggle Content EStore
Community Forums › All Things Italian › Translations › Catasti!!!!!

     Forum FAQ   Search   Log in to check your private messages   Login  
Catasti!!!!!
For help with translating documents or writing letters.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index Translations Printer Friendly Page

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
MauroMags
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Jul 15, 2007
Posts: 259
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

Hi Nuccia,

thanks for trying. My mother and i were just deliberating over this document and it looks like the annotations under 1765 say something to the effect of


"morto il sudi (sudetto) Magarelli ???????? Vincenzo ?????? ?????? morte anche il ?????

any guess?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Posts: 4375
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

Mauro..that looks like an f not an s in our opinion...(sudi),,,,fu stilling working on it.

_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Posts: 4375
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

Mauro..this is a Tax Assessment/Census Record for the family. I was just looking for it in one of my books and it has a copy of something that looks exactly like it. Let me read it and see what it says.

I may just end up sending you the copy of the page.

_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Posts: 4375
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

Vincenzo Magarello (occupation) Bracciale..28 yrs old
Anna ?ndicnte moglie (wife) 25 yrs old
Giuseppe? figlio 6
Modesto? figlio 3

Testa (Adult heads which I would assume would be two but it looks like something..uno)
Industria (industry) and the number is based on a monetary denomination according to the geographical area..its the total tax that was assessed for the house & production.



More to come....

_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Posts: 4375
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

The other names could be those who also lived in the household, including the servants. Looks like they lived at Nicola Bonad? ed..still checking.

Looks like the notation on the side belongs to another person, living at 1263 who seems to have been taxed or assessed separately since the note says 8: :10

And then another person...Magarelli living at 1265, but I still can't seem to get what he did?owned. But I will...

_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Posts: 4375
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

I need to get some sleep..work comes early in the morning but I'll look more tomorrow and try to figure it out. Hopefully someone can pick up something from this. The good thing about these types of records were that everyone living in or one the premises was listed...

Mauro, when I get the chance (maybe at work tomorrow) I'll scan the pages of the book and email you the copies of what it says about them. It may help you with the other records.

_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
liviomoreno
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 1140
Location: Rome (Italy)

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:44 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

Mauro, I took the liberty to post your document in the Italian forum Tutto per la Tua Genealogia. It was almost deciphered...
This is what Luca was able to read:

Dall'inizio
Vincenzo Megarelli (!) bracciale di anni 28
Anna Tridente (!) moglie di anni 23 (o 25)
Gius(epp)e figlio di anni 6
Modesto figlio di anni 3
(Quello che è scritto sotto al 3 non lo capisco)
Possiede mezza vigna d'oliva alla bracarella appresso li beni di Nicolò Bonadusce (poi 4 parole che non capisco) per Carlini undeci
Abita all'Anunziata alla casa di Comodo Cappellecchia, e paga annuj bai(?) quattro, altro ... ... ... vive dell'industria delle braccia
In alto a sinistra leggo:
1763
Possiede un bovino sano onc(e) 8:10
1765
Morto il sud(ett)o Megarelli
(6 parole che non capisco)
morto anche il bove (!)


This is my best translation [my comments between square brackets]

From the top:
Vincenzo Megarelli (!) farmhand, aged 28
Anna Tridente (!) wife, aged 23 (o 25)
Gius(epp)e son, aged 6
Modesto son, aged 3
(I don't understand what is written under the 3)
He owns half vineyard of olives alla bracarella [I don't know what is this] close to the property of Nicolò Bonadusce (then 4 words I don't understand) for eleven Carlini [Carlini is money]
He lives at Anunziata in the house of Comodo Cappellecchia, and he pays every year bai(?) [bai is money]four, other ... ... ... he works with his arms for a living
On top on the left:
1763
He owns an healthy beef weighing 8:10 onces
1765
The above mentioned Megarelli dead
(6 word I don't understand)
also the beef is dead (!)

_________________
Livio
La mia genealogia
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Posts: 4375
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:55 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

Livio,

Thats amazing! I thought at first the numbers were 1763 and 1765, then figured I was wrong! And """"""""""""""""I did recognize the olives as part of the assets but thats it! Embarassed

S I guess this must be the Census for a few years?

Wonder why everything died?

_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
liviomoreno
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 1140
Location: Rome (Italy)

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:25 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

Catasto = Land register

On the other forum, Luca has asked to post other documents because he enjoys to read them. Razz Razz Razz

_________________
Livio
La mia genealogia
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
liviomoreno
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 1140
Location: Rome (Italy)

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:52 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

I have done some additional research on Catasto onciario.
As I said in my previous post it is a Land Register that follows the rules dictated by the king Carlo di Borbone in the first half of the 18th century.
The register did not include any map and the value of the land itself was expressed in Once (money), 1 Oncia = 6 ducati...
The ultimate purpose was to establish the taxes that the owner had to pay....

_________________
Livio
La mia genealogia
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Cathy
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 2681

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:51 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

WOW - that is amazing. Livio, you are wonderful and I am sure Mauro will be so happy!
party

_________________
Cathy
My Websites
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
MauroMags
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Jul 15, 2007
Posts: 259
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:19 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

WOW!! Livio thank you so much!!! and please thank Luca for me.

I believe that the son Gius. is my gggg-grandfather. From other records i've learned that his father-in-law was named Corrado Cappolecchia. I wonder if its the same Corrado.

Also, i'm curious on how to date the ages of this family? The archivist wrote that this catasti runs from 1753 to 1780. Does that mean the original information was written in 1753 when Vincenzo was 28 and thus when he died in 1765 he was 40?

The entire file of catasti that i have is about 1.63 MB in a pdf file. What is the best way to post them

thank you to everyone for all the help! Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Cathy
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 2681

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:11 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

There is a service similar to Photo Bucket or Image Shack for uploading documents. I cannot remember the name of it but I think I have it bookmarked on my PC at home (I am at work). Or you can create a free googlepages website and upload the documents there. You can also email me the documents and I will upload them to my Calabrian Genealogy website and post the links here or email them to you (tell me which to do). I would be happy to do that for you.

_________________
Cathy
My Websites
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
MauroMags
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Jul 15, 2007
Posts: 259
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:28 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

Hi Cathy,

I just emailed you the pdf of the remaining documents. If you could post the links here that would be great, that way everyone on this forum can view them

thanks again,
Mauro
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Cathy
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 2681

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:51 am    Post subject: Re: Catasti!!!!! Reply with quote

OK! Very Happy Here is the link: www.calabriangenealogy...relli6.pdf

Thanks for sharing these amazing documents Mauro.

_________________
Cathy
My Websites
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
  Page 2 of 3All times are GMT - 4 Hours

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index Translations Printer Friendly Page

  
 
Jump to:  



You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum



Hosted By Site5.com
The logos and trademarks used on this site are the property of Gente di Mare Genealogy.
We are not responsible for comments posted by our users, as they are the opinions of the poster.
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy
TCD_ItalianGene © Gente di Mare Genealogy