Italysearcher wrote:

Actually I have found it is the newer priests who insist on my having the Bishop's permission which is not esy to get.

What I meant by new-blood is from the top, those who would actually change Church policy or at least make an attempt to protect and replicate these treasures. Younger people in touch with technology and the digitization of crucial documents.

It will change eventually... but sadly in the mean time how many records will be lost!

Just to show how these records are deteriorating Here is an example of one page that has lost several entries to deterioration and obvious water damage. It is so sad.

Horrible Cathy, just horrible!!! Like Jim said, these records are the only things that prove these people ever existed. When I see things like that it kills me, because it could be prevented! Thankfully there are people out there who do care enough to protect these records, but we can only do what we are allowed. As these pages turn to dust, so do the memories of our ancestors...

I hope this question hasn't been answered elsewhere already. If so, please direct me to the thread that has the answer.

I am helping a friend trace her grandmother. Her name was Elisabetta Lucia Perri. She was born in 1885 and married Salvatore (Mario?) Turano before she came to the United States around 1900 or so. The story in the family is that she came first, less than a year before her husband. Salvatore's entry at Ellis Island says he came from San Fili, but the story in the family is that they both came from Bucita. We were told by a relative who went to San Fili that the archives there burned in a fire in 1922 and the civil records were destroyed. Is this true? If so, we are thinking that we will only find verification of her birth and parents through any parish records we are allowed access to. Is there more than one parish in Bucita?

Welcome to Gente Alma! Bucita is in San Fili today - a district or hamlet. You could equate it to Manhattan in NYC or Lincoln Park in Chicago - section of the city. I have never heard of a fire that destroyed civil records (maybe a church had a fire but not the city hall)
I checked the Cosenza Archive and could not find your Elizabetta Perri's birth record, however, I do not think the archive has those years up yet. Do you know when Salvatore was born? I have some birth act indexes for San Fili up on my website that cover the years from 1866-1880. Let me know if I can help you.

Welcome to Gente, Alma. I just wanted to add that it seems the fire story is something that rumors to have happened in many communes! Hopefully Cathy can find you the records you are looking for, otherwise a simple letter to San Fili requesting the birth acts would be your next step. As she says, can you provide us with more info?

The birth act indexes show a Salvatore's birth listed in 1870. His parents are listed as Antonio Turano & Giuseppina Giorno. I could not find anything for Elisabetta Perri so she must have been born after 1880 or perhaps her birth was registered under a different name. I did find a Lucia Perri.

Thank you for the warm welcome, Cathy and Nuccia. You can call me Ingrid, if you like. That's my real name.

Anyway, here's what I have on Salvatore and Lucia. Salvatore Turano's parents emigrated to the United States. They were Michele Turano and Maria Rosaria Mazzula. We found Salvatore's Italian enlistment record that lists his birth date as 8 February 1881, born in San Fili.

Elisabetta Lucia Perri was called "Lucia" in the family. The story is that her family was against her marriage to Salvatore Turano because they were more prosperous than the Turanos. She emigrated very shortly after the marriage. So shortly, in fact, that people didn't believe she and Salvatore could have conceived her first child, born in America. The family says he he joined her either shortly before or shortly after the babvy was born. I found a Salvatore Turano on a passenger list dated November 1901 at Ellis Island who says he's from San Forli (Fili). He says he's married and he's travelling with a brother named Tomas. Both say they are going to their uncle Pasqale in McAdo, Pennsylvania. I find Michele and Maria Rosaria Turano living with a son, Thomas, in Carbondale, Pennsylvania in the 1910 census but I haven't found Salvatore and Lucia that year yet. I find Lucia and Salvatore living in Forest City, a hamlet just a mile north of Carbondale, in the 1920 census. They were living in Vandling, a tinier hamlet between Forest City and Carbondale, in 1923 when their son Salvatore Jr. was born. In the 1930 census they're living two doors down from Michele and Maria Rosaria on Pidgeon Ave. in Carbondale. Lucia died on 6 Oct 1957. Her death certificate says she was born 28 August, 1885 in Bucita and that her parents were Pietro Perri and Concetta Luchetta. At Arhivio di Stato di Cosenza I've found abstracts of birth records for two Concetta Luchettas in San Fili. One was born on 29/04/1862, daughter of Saverio Luchetta, bracciale, 27 years and of Santa Caputo, contadina, 27 years. The other was born on 29/11/1861, daughter of Carmine Luchetta, bracciale, 27 years and of Carmina Lio, contadina, 24 years.

So, I'm trying to find (1) when Lucia married Salvatore, (2) Pietro Perri's birth record and (3) if either of these Concetta Luchettas are Lucia's mother.
We've talked to one of Lucia's nephews and he told us that she had four brothers, Pietro, Pasquale, Francesco, and Simone, and a sister Angelina. One of Lucia's nephews went back to Bucita in the 1950s and found her cousins living on the land that had belonged to her parents so we think perhaps all her living siblings came to the U.S, but I am by no means sure about this, myself.

I hope this isn't too disorganized. We have lots of information but I'm not an expert at this my any means. I'd be grateful for any pointers or assistance anyone can offer.

Could this be your Salvatore and Elisabeth???


1910 United States Federal Census
about Salvatore Turano
Name: Salvatore Turano
[Solvortore Turano]
Age in 1910: 28
Estimated birth year: abt 1882
Birthplace: Italy
Relation to Head of House: Head
Father's Birth Place: Italy
Mother's Birth Place: Italy
Spouse's name: Lizzie
Home in 1910: Forest Ward 2, Susquehanna, Pennsylvania
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Gender: Male
Year of Immigration: 1901
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Salvatore Turano 28
Lizzie Turano 28
Mike Turano 7
Harry Turano 5
Mary Turano 2
Millie Turano 10/12

Alma wrote:

Thank you for the warm welcome, Cathy and Nuccia. You can call me Ingrid, if you like. That's my real name. Anyway, here's what I have on Salvatore and Lucia. Salvatore Turano's parents emigrated to the United States. They were Michele Turano and Maria Rosaria Mazzula. We found Salvatore's Italian enlistment record that lists his birth date as 8 February 1881, born in San Fili. Elisabetta Lucia Perri was called "Lucia" in the family. The story is that her family was against her marriage to Salvatore Turano because they were more prosperous than the Turanos. She emigrated very shortly after the marriage. So shortly, in fact, that people didn't believe she and Salvatore could have conceived her first child, born in America. The family says he he joined her either shortly before or shortly after the babvy was born. I found a Salvatore Turano on a passenger list dated November 1901 at Ellis Island who says he's from San Forli (Fili). He says he's married and he's travelling with a brother named Tomas. Both say they are going to their uncle Pasqale in McAdo, Pennsylvania. I find Michele and Maria Rosaria Turano living with a son, Thomas, in Carbondale, Pennsylvania in the 1910 census but I haven't found Salvatore and Lucia that year yet. I find Lucia and Salvatore living in Forest City, a hamlet just a mile north of Carbondale, in the 1920 census. They were living in Vandling, a tinier hamlet between Forest City and Carbondale, in 1923 when their son Salvatore Jr. was born. In the 1930 census they're living two doors down from Michele and Maria Rosaria on Pidgeon Ave. in Carbondale. Lucia died on 6 Oct 1957. Her death certificate says she was born 28 August, 1885 in Bucita and that her parents were Pietro Perri and Concetta Luchetta. At Arhivio di Stato di Cosenza I've found abstracts of birth records for two Concetta Luchettas in San Fili. One was born on 29/04/1862, daughter of Saverio Luchetta, bracciale, 27 years and of Santa Caputo, contadina, 27 years. The other was born on 29/11/1861, daughter of Carmine Luchetta, bracciale, 27 years and of Carmina Lio, contadina, 24 years. So, I'm trying to find (1) when Lucia married Salvatore, (2) Pietro Perri's birth record and (3) if either of these Concetta Luchettas are Lucia's mother. We've talked to one of Lucia's nephews and he told us that she had four brothers, Pietro, Pasquale, Francesco, and Simone, and a sister Angelina. One of Lucia's nephews went back to Bucita in the 1950s and found her cousins living on the land that had belonged to her parents so we think perhaps all her living siblings came to the U.S, but I am by no means sure about this, myself.

You have to be careful on the archive site. Your San Fili surnames are very common - especially Perri. There were 2 Salvatore Turano's born in San Fili in 1881.
SIAS Code IT-ASCS-F680258
Ufficio Leva della Provincia di Cosenza, Enlistment year 1881.Volume number 176,
document number 178 page 368 section a
Salvatore Mario Turano, contadino enlisted on --/--/----
born on 08/02/1881 to SAN FILI
son/daughter of Michele Turano and of Maria Rosaria Mazzulla

SIAS Code IT-ASCS-F680258
Ufficio Leva della Provincia di Cosenza, Enlistment year 1881.Volume number 176,
document number 159 page 355 section c
Salvatore Maria Turano, enlisted on 02/07/1901
born on 21/06/1881 to SAN FILI
son/daughter of Biagio Turano and of Michelina Perri

Do you know which is yours for sure? One of those Concetta Lucchetta's (born in 1861) died at 1 year of age. The only way to be sure you are tracking the correct family to to obtain their U.S. death records which may list their parent's names or obtain their marriage record. Were they married in San Fili or Pennsylvania? If they were married in San Fili you can write the comune and ask for a copy of the marriage act or you can order a microfilm from your local LDS Family History Center. Either way the record will clearly state their parent's names and ages. Then you can know for sure who their parents were. Once you know their parents names, the archive can help you better if you follow the marriages to trace your direct lines. You will also be able to find brothers and sisters.
If you choose to write San Fili, I believe Nuccia can give you the address to write to and you can post your request in English on the translation board and someone will translate your request into Italian. If you choose to research through the LDS Films we can point you in the right direction and get you started there. Just let us know.
Here are a few Pennsylvania Online record resources that may help you:
Pennsylvania (Ancestors At Rest) Death records
Pennsylvania Vital Records

Thank you, Nuccia. That is them! I was just given a chart written out by an old aunt and it explains the presence of Mary and Millie, who don't appear in 1920. Millie's real name was Emilia. Both she and Mary passed away in 1912. I'm satisfied now that these are my friend Linda's grandparents.

Thanks for the warning, Cathy. I didn't know that and I will definitely keep that in mind. We're hoping to find historic family data to add to a family tree one of Lucia's nephews is working on and we want to be as accurate as possible. We have the original death certificates for Salvatore's parents. His mother, Maria Rosaria Turano, says her father's name was Luigi Mazzulla so do you think it's safe to assume the citation for Salvatore Mario Turano is the correct one?

The original death certificate for Salvatore's wife Lucia lists her name as "Elizabeth Lucia Turano" and her parents names as "Concetta Luchetta" and "Pietro Perri." Tonight I spoke to one of Lucia's oldest nephews for the first time. He told me her brothers were named Pasquale, Francesco and Simone and her sisters were named Angelina and Maria. All of these people were born in Italy but they all emigrated to the U. S. He said Pietro Perri's parents were Pasquale Perri and Lucenza ("loo-chenza") Mazza.

Would the comune respond to a request for marriage records if I don't have a date or year?

Would Santa Maria La Castagna be the parish for Bucita? Forgive me if you've made it clear on your website but I don't know if Bucita was only ever in one parish or if it was in several over time.

Alma,
The comune would respond without an exact year. Give them a 5 year time frame to check. If I had the San Fili film, I could check it but I do not - sorry. Those parish records on my website begin in 1746 when the town borders were different than they are today. Bucita was a smaller frasione of Santa Maria La Castagna which was a larger frasione of Montalto (now Montalto Uffugo). It is very possible once you get back that far that you may find your family in those records. Bucita (today) does have it's own church called Chiesa S.Lucia (Church of Saint Lucy). I am not sure how old that church is.

You may want to look at Pietro Perri's website. He lives in San Fili and I have followed his various websites for quite a few years. Use Google translate if you do not speak Italian. He has wonderful stories and pictures of San Fili!

Thanks so much for that link to Mr. Perri's website. I've read about a third of it and think I've fallen in love with his love for his homeplace... And just today on my way home from work I was wishing to find a website that told more about San Fili than the ones designed to advertise businesses in small communities do. What serendipity!

I've found an LDS family history center near me. I stopped in today. They seem pretty nice. They told me to work backwards in time so I've ordered the latest films -- the ones that should show Lucia's marriage and her siblings' births. I can't wait to see what I can find!

Alma..
It's great that you ordered the marriage's and birth's first. As Jim taught me early on, and Cathy has confirmed, they really are the best records to start with - I wish I had done that before I ordered the 8 films I ordered and need to work through before I can order more. Keep us posted on your progress and perhaps contact myself or Cathy if you like about adding the info you get/find on the website. It will add to her San Fili pages and may help others - as well as yourself connect with family. (Oh, and some of my family is also from San Fili .. )