x
Toggle Content Register or Login  -  December 9, 2024, 2:56 pm
Toggle Content User Info

Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: LucilleDZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 2016

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 15
Total: 15
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: My Account
04: Community Forums
05: Home
06: Home
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: My Account
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Toggle Content Main Menu
Toggle Content Last Posts
Last 10 Forum Messages

translation help needed please
Last post by yesindd in Translations on Jul 15, 2024 at 20:59:53

bocca
Last post by tennino in General Discussion Groups on Jan 16, 2021 at 15:56:41

Towns in Frosinone that were part of former Vatican States a
Last post by Italysearcher in Central Italy on Feb 19, 2019 at 08:15:58

Dual Citizenship
Last post by Curci-Ghio in General Discussion Groups on Nov 18, 2018 at 14:30:54

Please Help Translate Letter
Last post by nuccia in Translations on Oct 20, 2018 at 06:18:43

Family in Cittanova
Last post by russojoseph1 in Translations on Oct 14, 2018 at 12:28:20

DNA Testing
Last post by nuccia in General Discussion Groups on Sep 29, 2018 at 10:39:30

Trento -Atto di Nascita - Frazione di Poia, Comune di Comano
Last post by exevans in Northern Italy on Mar 28, 2018 at 00:45:37

Translating written postcard
Last post by mekanic in Translations on Jan 18, 2018 at 12:58:50

Translating written postcard
Last post by mekanic in Translations on Jan 18, 2018 at 12:53:38

Toggle Content Help Support this Site
Please support GentediMareGenealogy
Help us by supporting the future development of this site, or simply to say thank you.
Toggle Content EStore
Community Forums › All Things Italian › Translations › Occupation translation from Catasto Onciaro

     Forum FAQ   Search   Log in to check your private messages   Login  
Occupation translation from Catasto Onciaro
For help with translating documents or writing letters.
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index Translations Printer Friendly Page

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jron
Mem
Mem


Joined: Apr 19, 2008
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:11 am    Post subject: Occupation translation from Catasto Onciaro Reply with quote

I posted this question on another forum but realized this one is probably the correct one. Any idea what the occupation "Potellaro" refers to?

img136.imageshack.us/i...102kp8.png


*Note* I made your attachment a link so that the board would go back to a normal size. Hope you don't mind! ~nuccia~
Back to top
View user's profile
liviomoreno
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 1140
Location: Rome (Italy)

PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: Occupation translation from Catasto Onciaro Reply with quote

It does not look like Potellaro, I would rather read Posellaro, and I do not have a translation for Posellaro either.

From the four words in the pic I would read Giuseppe Lo Bianco Posellaro d'anni and I would say that Posellaro is a second surname, since it begins with a capital letter.
I suggest that you post the entire document so that we may compare the letters and better understand...

_________________
Livio
La mia genealogia
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Aether
Researcher
Researcher


Joined: Apr 12, 2008
Posts: 128
Location: Americas, Italy

PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Occupation translation from Catasto Onciaro Reply with quote

Does'nt look like the "s" in Giuseppe. Can you post the document? Will try to check a list of occupations.

Aether

_________________
"Fiori di grano
Amici piu' di prima saremo;
Amici piu' di prima da lontano."

Aether

Account Deactivated
Back to top
View user's profile
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Occupation translation from Catasto Onciaro Reply with quote

If it's an occupation I can think to "patellaro" (padellaro), but the capital letter suggests a surname: I read Potellaro.

Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
liviomoreno
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 1140
Location: Rome (Italy)

PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Occupation translation from Catasto Onciaro Reply with quote

Aether wrote:
Does'nt look like the "s" in Giuseppe. Can you post the document? Will try to check a list of occupations.

Aether
Luca wrote:
If it's an occupation I can think to "patellaro" (padellaro), but the capital letter suggests a surname: I read Potellaro.

Luca

I believe that the full document may help...

_________________
Livio
La mia genealogia
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Aether
Researcher
Researcher


Joined: Apr 12, 2008
Posts: 128
Location: Americas, Italy

PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Occupation translation from Catasto Onciaro Reply with quote

Check <Surname finder>:
I found Potellaro as a surname, and also Padellaro as a surname in Sicily.

List of occupations in Italy did not list either.

Aether Confused

_________________
"Fiori di grano
Amici piu' di prima saremo;
Amici piu' di prima da lontano."

Aether

Account Deactivated
Back to top
View user's profile
jron
Mem
Mem


Joined: Apr 19, 2008
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:29 am    Post subject: Re: Occupation translation from Catasto Onciaro Reply with quote

Thanks for replies but I am 100% sure it is an occupation not surname. There are about 5 people in the town of 300 households with that occupation. I know it is not a surname since for example in the Catasto, the index lists the above person with surname Lo Bianco with the other 4 people also having different surnames.
Also if it was a surname then it would be strange that they are the only 5 people without an occupation classification which goes against the purpose of the Catasto Onceiro.

This is another example.

img169.imageshack.us/i...aroje7.jpg
Back to top
View user's profile
liviomoreno
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 1140
Location: Rome (Italy)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:44 am    Post subject: Re: Occupation translation from Catasto Onciaro Reply with quote

Please post an entire page...

_________________
Livio
La mia genealogia
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
jron
Mem
Mem


Joined: Apr 19, 2008
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:26 am    Post subject: Re: Occupation translation from Catasto Onciaro Reply with quote

Maybe I should take a step back and explain. The Catasto Oncieri were a tax census done for every town in Southern Italy at around 1752 (excluding Sicily). The format is consistent among all documents and incredibly detailed. It tells the household name, his occupation, his wife or brothers/sisters living with him and also his kids and age. It also goes into great detail on what the person owns (so that it can be taxed) to the level of how many sheep!
This information is sitting in the Naples Archives and mostly not available online. My families towns Catasto was over 800 pages long. It would cost around 4-600 USD to get a researcher in Italy to photocopy it for you (in my case I found others from my town and we shared the expense).


So each individual household starts out with the head of household, his occupation and then his age.

My reading of Italian is above average (for a non Italian) but I just can't figure out what that occupation is (searched extensively on Internet already). Perhaps is in an outdated job but I would image that others researching their own towns Catasto Oncieri would have come across this word.


I give an example of another one with a known occupation of 'Massaro' which is farm manager.

So you can see 'Massaro' is not the last name , d'Agostino is , just as 'Potellaro' is not the last name, Coluccio is.

It also may be a handwriting issue. For example there is another section in my towns Catasto that is written by someone else. In the above case the slightly different handwriting shows.

img260.imageshack.us/i...inorz0.jpg
Back to top
View user's profile
jron
Mem
Mem


Joined: Apr 19, 2008
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:48 am    Post subject: Re: Occupation translation from Catasto Onciaro Reply with quote

Luca wrote:
If it's an occupation I can think to "patellaro" (padellaro), but the capital letter suggests a surname: I read Potellaro.

Luca

It just might be Padellaro. What occupation is that?
Back to top
View user's profile
jron
Mem
Mem


Joined: Apr 19, 2008
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:24 am    Post subject: Re: Occupation translation from Catasto Onciaro Reply with quote

Thanks Luca!!! I took your advise and found out what Padellaro is finally!!!!

It is a maker of frying pans.

I have noticed that sometimes they used to write a 'd' like a 't' in the document. For example one of the rich nobles in the towns last name was 'Amaduri'. However in various places in the Catasto they write it as 'Amaturi'.
Back to top
View user's profile
JamesBianco
Researcher
Researcher


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 645
Location: Westfield, MA.

PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:09 am    Post subject: Re: Occupation translation from Catasto Onciaro Reply with quote

I am familiar with the Catasto and also The Sicilian Riveli (which is basically the same type of document, although taken much more regularly starting in the late 1500's)

you can see an example of the family portion of the 1653 Carini (PA) Riveli here: Carini 1653 Riveli

I am fortunate enough to have available online my great-great grandmother's town's Catasto extracted and online for Crispano (NA). I have just looked through the entire site and find nothing even similar to "Patellaro" . You can have a look yourself here:

Crispano (NA) 1753 Catasto onciario

May I ask what town these pages are from?

Jim

_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Posts: 4375
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:55 am    Post subject: Re: Occupation translation from Catasto Onciaro Reply with quote

jron wrote:
Luca wrote:
If it's an occupation I can think to "patellaro" (padellaro), but the capital letter suggests a surname: I read Potellaro.

Luca

It just might be Padellaro. What occupation is that?

Funny enough,
I looked this up this morning and found that same occupation in Italian Genealogical Records but I was waiting for the entire document to post it.

Next time, I will post it anyway....lol

_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
liviomoreno
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 1140
Location: Rome (Italy)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Occupation translation from Catasto Onciaro Reply with quote

jron wrote:
Maybe I should take a step back and explain...

I know what a Catasto Onciario is.
The purpose of having the entire page was to understand the handwriting, by comparing the letters.
Btw I'm glad that you finally got your answer.

_________________
Livio
La mia genealogia
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:49 am    Post subject: Re: Occupation translation from Catasto Onciaro Reply with quote

jron wrote:
Thanks Luca!!! I took your advise and found out what Padellaro is finally!!!!

Wink

Visto che sai leggere l'Italiano dai un'occhiata a questa pagina: 209.85.135.104/search?...&gl=it

Ciao
Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
  Page 1 of 5All times are GMT - 4 Hours

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index Translations Printer Friendly Page

  
 
Jump to:  



You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum



Hosted By Site5.com
The logos and trademarks used on this site are the property of Gente di Mare Genealogy.
We are not responsible for comments posted by our users, as they are the opinions of the poster.
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy
TCD_ItalianGene © Gente di Mare Genealogy